THE ABYSSINIAN PRINCE #285

October 22, 2004

Produced by Jim Burgess, 664 Smith Street, Providence, RI 02908-4327 USA, (401)351-0287

Accessible through Internet at burgess of world.std.com (all E-Mail addresses are reported in this format, replace the " of " with "@"; if you bounce try sending to me from another account or FAX to (401) 277-9904. For Faxing, most of the time you have to call me to tell me it's coming so I can set up the FAX.

Web Page Address: http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Postal/Zines/TAP/index.html

Well, this absurdly long election season is almost over and the next time I send out an issue, I'll do it in the context of new elected US politicians. More interestingly, in many ways, we should also know who the new Afghan president is. I've really been enjoying the BBC Radio World Service coverage of this election by Lise Doucette. It does like like Hamid Karzai will win, but the process has been fascinating. We all should have been watching this much closer for lessons about how things will go in Iraq, although Iraq surely will be MUCH more complicated and difficult.

I don't want to go into repetitive detail on issues surrounding these two parties and these two candidates over here, since this has been covered to death and has gone on forever. I was reminded of JUST how long in the Vice Presidential Debate and all of that discussion about whether Dick Cheney did or did not ever meet John Edwards before (in the end, of course, he had, but he had forgotten). I can remember when this all started and I knew Edwards' name and a tiny bit about him, but did not even know what he looked like. And now, I was looking at him here and I feel as if I've lived with him in my head and mind for a decade. But the one issue that I think has not been played up enough, but is a big reason for the polarization of the electorate, is related to the one you hear about Bush being a religious guy who acts and believes once he acts he doesn't have to admit mistakes, vs. an introspective guy like Kerry who debates issues with himself and does admit to mistakes and tries to learn from them (both styles, of course, have strengths and weaknesses and are better for addressing different types of problems and one could discuss if we think the problems are more suited to Bush favored or Kerry favored ones, but that is NOT my point here). No, the issue is a fundamental one of your view of the context of situations "on the ground" (to use the overused phrase in the way it REALLY is meant). The issue is whether one tries very hard to do as well as one can to walk in the other people's moccasins and see the world as they see it. And then you align what you're doing to the way people actually behave. This is difficult because you really have to spend a lot of time looking and listening and getting beyond surface reasons why people appear to do what they do. Anthropologists are the profession I can think of that is most organized this way in their thinking. Or, do you try to change people's actions through rules and changing the way people are and issue the orders and directives and try to motivate people to walk in YOUR moccasins. This is difficult (e.g. in Iraq at the moment) because you have to keep pushing and pulling until people are moving closely enough in the way you want them to in order to accomplish your goals. Business CEO's (and this is the real sense in which George is the MBA president, in this attitude) are the stereotypical profession that is most organized this way in their thinking, but I'd argue that it is the middle manager in a bureaucracy that spends their time writing directives because they are trying to manage a situation with a very wide scope of control efficiently is a better model. Both paths are difficult, but you spend your time fighting and working on very different things. And most people in their everyday lives primarily do one of these or the other too, and have trouble seeing why or how the other approach can be done at all. To me, this is the key difference between John Kerry and George Bush that people don't talk about enough. It is there, but buried in the rhetoric. And people's attitudes about this tend to be lodged deep in their souls, nearly impossible to change or re-direct. You may recall that Clinton did the "feel your pain" aspect of the Kerry side of this far better than Kerry does. But the key is that I don't believe you can argue about this, and in fact, most of you will be so buried in one side of this or the other by your basic personality that you may not even be able to see the distinction I'm making. But I'll bet your attitude toward this point determines which person you're going to vote for. If anyone looks at this basic test and comes up with a diametrically opposed voting preference, I'd be REAL interested to know how and why.

Last issue was a bit of a mailing disaster as I couldn't get to the post office for days after I printed the issue. This especially affected some of the foreign mailings, and for that I apologize. I'm going to make the attempt to be more organized this time and in the future. As a result, I was very loose with deadlines for this issue.

Well, we can bag that Jim-Bob plea.... John Caruso has decided to fold his baseball league. I did make the playoffs, so I will strive to win the last championship. More on that next time. Contact John at commishjohn of att.net in the meantime if you want to get in touch before he changes his E-Mail address, since he will no longer be THE Commish.

The postal sub price is still $1.50 per issue in the US and Canada, with double that for other foreign subbers(or $3.00 per issue sent airmail). Players in current games and standbys will continue to get the issues for free, and future game starts (except for Nuclear Yuppie Evil Empire Diplomacy, which is free) cost $20.00 ($15.00 for a life of the game subscription and $5 for the NMR Insurance. Or you can play in subszines for free and just jack up the issue page count. See the revised game start announcements below!

Check out the connections in the Diplomatic Pouch with all of the information you need to play Diplomacy on the Internet at: http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/

I also have taken over the Postal portion of the Pouch: http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Postal/

and TAP on the web is there at: http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Postal/Zines/TAP/index.html

where the szine resides in html format. Presently, issues from #190 to the current issue are there, and I will be updating the back issues gradually someday. Also, check out Stephen Agar's more extensive efforts at: http://www.diplomacy-archive.com and http://www.diplomacy.co.uk

Peter Sullivan's subszine remains "in stasis", although all the back issues can be accessed via :

http://www.burdonvale.co.uk/octopus/index.html.

Peter was saying that he would be unlikely to be starting any new games in the Octopus until "at least the start of 2002." He is now hereby declared to be in official indeterminate stasis and that date is now a "whenever". In the meantime, Rip Gooch and Dave Partridge are picking up the choo-choo game slack in TAP. Contact Rip at xyropedes of canada.com or Dave at rebhuhn of rocketmail.com for more info.

By electronic mail, through the Internet, subs are free and can be obtained automatically by sending the message: subscribe tap

to majordomo of diplom.org and messages can be sent to the entire electronic mailing list by mailing them to tap of diplom.org which will forward your message to all of the people currently on the list. The message:

unsubscribe tap

sent to majordomo of diplom.org gets you off the list. Please make careful note of that as well since you generally can get yourself off the list a lot easier than I can, and NOBODY likes to see unsubscribe messages sent to the entire list. A big, big thank you for David Kovar for setting this all up!!

THE SEARCH FOR WHO SHOULD WE DAMN NEXT??

I'm a bit fresh out of ideas over people to find, does someone else have some suggestions?

Feel free to spend the time looking for some of the backlog. Let's get Sylvain, Steve, Ed, Tom, Bill, Gregory, and ESPECIALLY Kevin found too!!! This is a regular continuing feature of the szine and I will be introducing a new "search for" every five issues. Moreover, you can win a $25 prize for finding some previous target who went unfound in the original $50 period. That means that if Steve Heinowski or Ed Henry or Tom Hurst or Bill Quinn or Gregory Stewart or Kevin Tighe or Sylvain LaRose is "found" from now on it is worth $25.

Winners will receive credit for Dip hobby activities that I will pay out as requested by the winner. Subscribe to szines here or abroad, run your own contests, publish a szine, finance a web page, GO TO A DIPLOMACY CONVENTION or whatever. Spend it all right away or use me as a bank to cover hobby activities for years. What must you do to win? Get me a letter to the editor for TAP from the person we're searching for.

This is very important, just finding them doesn't do it. They have to write me a letter. The final judge as to the winner of any contest will be the target himself and I reserve the right to investigate the winning entry. When you find someone I'm looking for, you should ask him to send me a letter for print that includes a verification of who "found" him.

INTERNATIONAL SUBSCRIPTION EXCHANGE NEWS

The British representative is the editor of Mission From God, John Harrington. John may be contacted at 1 Churchbury Close, Enfield, Middlesex EN1 3UW, UK.

E-Mail: fiendish of operamail.com, John.Harrington of tfeurope.com

Please include the full name and address of the foreign publisher with your order, if possible, as well as the szine title. Make your check in US dollars out to me personally or in GBP to John if you're doing things from that end. I will conduct business for Canadians as well, if I can, but prefer to deal in US dollars with them if possible, or Canadian dollars cash. To subscribe to American szines, the system works in reverse.

We have added a European continental representative, most of this traffic likely will occur between Ronald Camstra (in the Netherlands) and John Harrington, but if anyone here in the US wants to get money into Euros, we'll try to help you out. Ronald Camstra can be contacted at siedler of zonnet.nl and his home address is: Wielingenplein 48, 3522 PE Utrecht, the Netherlands. But in Holland it is most common not to send checks but to transfer money by bank. Dutch people can pay directly to Postbankaccount 4652247 of Ronald Camstra in Utrecht. Since he can see the name and address of the sender in his bankreceipt, people only have to mention the name of the zine and the editorial address along with their bank order. Ronald is obviously a huge Settlers of Catan fan. If you're interested in playing that game internationally by mail, I think Ronald can help you out.

We also have reopened a branch office of the International Subscription Exchange in Australia!! Brendan Whyte, the publisher of the excellent szine Damn the Consequences will be doing the honors, taking over in some sense from John Cain, who was the Australian rep for many years. You can contact Brendan to sub to Australian szines from the US or to sub to US szines from Australia, converting Australian dollars into American ones. We are now maneuvering deals to Europe from the other reps as well. You can find Brendan Whyte at bwhyte of unimelb.edu.au (note that this is a new E-Mail address for Brendan) or by mail to send checks at: Map Collection, ERC Library, University of Melbourne, Vic 3010, AUSTRALIA. That's a relatively new address adjustment.

WORLDMASTERS02 SECTION

WorldMasters 2002 Email Diplomacy Tournament Semi-Finals have been completed, see below! Congratulations to ALL the semi-final winners, these games were all VERY intensely fought.

See http://www.cat23.com/wm02/ for full details. Since I didn't get sufficient interest to get a team in, I am back on the WorldMasters Tournament Management Committee again, not much is going on there, only a rollback issue or two.

Rudi van Hal (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:25:06 -0700)

Here are the final results for the Semifinal of the WorldMasters '02 Email Diplomacy Individual Tournament. Please check these results for any errors and, if you are one of the players advancing, let me know if you are unavailable for the Final. Please let me know as soon as possible, so that the fairest possible draw can be made.

The following players will advance to the Final:

Julio Pereira (Equiperoca) England 66.00

Bruce Mount (Any Name Will Do) France 48.00

Robert Köhnen (DEAC's Cohort of Seven) Austria 48.00

Eelco "Jurojin" van Duijnhoven (Shichi-Fukujin) Austria 48.00

Steve Langdon (Basking Sharks) Italy 46.00

Itamar Laserson (Premature Attack Elation) Germany 45.00

Adam Silverman (Any Name Will Do) Austria 45.00

The following players will not advance: Did not top semifinal board

Justin Weisweiller (Premature Attack Elation) England 31.00; Tim Sweeney (Riders of the Storm) Turkey 28.00; Steve Ray (Bladeslingers) France 28.00; Guy Thomas (Old Contemptibles) France 26.00; David "lingfish" Ling (Red October) Turkey 25.00; Peter Hart (Psycho Bunny Wunny) Germany 22.00; Michael Weinzimer (Is this the Risk Tournament?) France 22.00; Bernd "Frosch" Wittmann (German Gentlemen) Russia 16.00; owen "owen_blagae" blagae (Norfolk and Good) Turkey 14.00; Anatoly Makarenko (DIPLORED) Russia 13.00; Paul Stuckwisch (Operation Overlord) Russia 10.00; David Malloch (Riders of the Storm) Germany 7.00; Rick Mallon (Bladeslingers) England 7.00; Steve "UOY" Emmert (Atlantis) Russia 6.00; Lee Simpson (Riders of the Storm) England 6.00; Paul Butterworth (Psycho Bunny Wunny) England 5.00; Stan "Stan" Rodrigues (The Seven Samurai) France 5.00; Patrick "Knight VII" Johnson (The Knights who say Ni) France 5.00; Steve Janecek (The Seven Moths Of Erlend`s Parka) Austria 5.00; Toby "the real" Harris (The Seven Moths Of Erlend`s Parka) Germany 3.00; Nick Benedict (Diplomatic Despots) Russia 0.00; Rick "luvsizmum" Powell (Diplomatic Incident) Russia 0.00; Walter "Ebisu" de Oude (Shichi-Fukujin) Russia 0.00; Jake Mannix (The PiggyBackers) Italy 0.00; Andrew Stupple (Semi-Conscious) Italy 0.00; Roger Yonkoski (Green Mountain Boys) Italy 0.00; Vincent Carry (The Independants) Italy 0.00; Doug "Sauron" Burgoyne (Stepsons of Vashanka) Italy 0.00; Stuart Evers (The Seven Samurai) Italy 0.00; Brian Shelden (Have Fleet Will Travel) Turkey 0.00; Len Tennant (Mount Robson Beer & Hatchet Society) Turkey 0.00; John "Bishamonten" O'Donnell (Shichi-Fukujin) Turkey 0.00; John Colledge (Old Contemptibles) Turkey 0.00; Ray "Cheesysnax" Setzer (Stepsons of Vashanka) Germany 0.00; Gokul Ramdas (The Seven Samurai) Germany 0.00; Steve Bird (Semi-Conscious) Germany 0.00; Brad McLaren "Smith" Smith (Red October) England 0.00; Jan Willem "Benzaiten" Omlo (Shichi-Fukujin) England 0.00; Pat "Knight VI" D'Hyon (The Knights who say Ni) England 0.00; Eric "Pan Man" Mead (The PiggyBackers) France 0.00; Kester Bearne (Riders of the Storm) Austria 0.00; Jonathan "Knight IV" Langman (The Knights who say Ni) Austria 0.00; Jon Crocker (The Watergate Seven) Austria 0.00.

Thanks for your time, Rudi van Hal, WM02 Tournament Director, td of worldmasters.net

DIPDOM NEWS SECTION (with letters)

Obscure and not-so-obscure ramblings on the state of the hobby and its publications, custodians, events, and individuals with no guarantee of relevance from the fertile keyboard of Jim-Bob, the E-Mail Dip world, and the rest of the postal hobby. My comments are in italics and ((double quotation marks)) like this. Bold face is used to set off each individual speaker. I should also make a note that I do edit for syntax and spelling on occasion.

The game Diplomacy is a copyrighted product owned by Hasbro and all reproductions or other use of that material in this szine is intended to be personal use and not infringe on those rights in any way. All reproductions are done at a heavy financial loss to the editor and thus are without the remotest possibility of commercial intent, except to promote THE game, the Game of Diplomacy, which you all should purchase from Hasbro or other duly licensed distributors.

Stephen Agar has matched the Hasbro rule lists and more with some of the even older rulebooks. Check these out if you like:

http://www.hasbro.com/default.asp?xcc_gameandtoyinstructions

http://www.hasbro.com/instruct/Diplomacy.PDF

http://www.hasbro.com/instruct/Diplomacy(OlderVers).PDF

Nice of them to make BOTH of these available. And all seven different US rulebooks for Diplomacy can now be found here courtesy of Stephen Agar (relatively new address for this):

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/diplomacy_rules.htm

Check out current and back issues of Diplomacy World - www.diplomacyworld.org

We are back on solid track, Tim Haffey has agreed to be the Production Editor that I needed. We always need more articles, Issue #91 is out NOW and #92 will be out in December. If you think you should have been on that list and weren't, let me or Dave Partridge know. Help us out, write an article for a future issue!

Upcoming Diplomacy World Issue Deadlines:

Deadline Winter 2004, Issue #92: December 1, 2004

Editorial Board for Diplomacy World:

Tim Haffey, 810 53rd Ave., Oakland, CA 94601 USA; trhaffey of aol.com - Lead-Editor, Demo Game GM, and Publisher

Jim Burgess, 664 Smith Street, Providence, RI 02908-4327, USA; burgess of world.std.com - Co-Editor

Stephen Agar, 4 Cedars Gardens, Brighton, UNITED KINGDOM BN1 6YD; stephen of stephenagar.com - Webmaster and Non-US Postal

Rick Desper, 5440 Marinelli Road, #204, Rockville, MD 20852, USA; rick_desper of yahoo.com - Demo Games

Dave Partridge, 15 Woodland Drive, Brookline, NH 03033, USA; rebhuhn of rocketmail.com - US Postal

((I want to start priming everyone right now for World DipCon 2006, which will be held in Berlin, Germany. I've never been to Germany and that seems like as good an excuse as any to go. As a beginning to getting used to the idea of this, the German group ran Euro DipCon this year, here are the results and some introductions to some of the players who you're likely to see..... this all comes courtesy of my good pal Frank Bacher who is one of the nicest Diplomacy players you're ever likely to meet.))

Frank Bacher (Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:25:05)

EuropeanDipCon XII Results

All, here is a short review of EDC XII from an organizer's perspective: EDC XII at Darmstadt is now history and we hope a part of history most of you will remember with a good feeling. We actually got that impression from many of you. What we want to deliver to all of you as a small token of our gratitude is this review, complete with pictures and results.

Pictures can be found here: http://www.diplomacy-bund.de/cons/edc/int/rueck/bilder/

Thursday - The Day all those bloodthirsty and/or snuggling Diplomats met first

Traditionally the first day of a German Con is a day to drink, chat and play games together in a friendly evironment without getting involved in any tournament. Well, except the few guys who need that special kick every day and decided to take part in the Macchiavelli tournament game. We felt that this was a good start for the tourney to meet once under friendly conditions without any need to stab your neighbour though of course some couldn't resist playing our beloved game anyway. Particularly interesting was a "tradition" born this evening for the leader to wear a yellow jersey as kind of a bull's eye. As there was no leader yet Yann Clouet, the reigning Champion, "had to" wear it. For those who found this somehow strange: It was never planned that way and just happened :D. Originally the TD or one of the organizers should have worn it. As none of us was too keen on wearing it, Yann got it and it never left the tourney through all those rounds. Who knows, maybe it becomes a tradition... For some it was already a long night with the last players attending their beds around 5 a.m.

Friday - Day of truth but never truce

After breakfast far too early in the morning for some if not most, the tourney finally started and guess what, Monsieur Clouet didn't show up in his "new" shirt deciding to take a longer nap instead. Well, enough players to fill the impressive number of 9 Boards showed up any way. After the first round a new target was born: Doug Massie impressively taking the lead with 15-7-6-5-1 top as Germany. After that much excitement and stress it was time to relax for the players while waiting for BBQ that was planned a bit later. However, some of the very sportive gives couldn't be stopped from having a match of soccer in the field, which was more like a pond of mud due to the rainy weather. ((Doug is a really careful player, but once he gets ahead in a tournament he tends to get nervous and has a bit of trouble. I shouldn't talk, since I never even get in Doug's position, but if I had been there I would have tried to get Doug to calm down a bit and root for him to continue to stay near the top.))

Just after the first 20 or so players had shown up, we at the grills started to realize what we got ourselves into with feeding 80 hungry and dangerous backstabbers. Even worse: They all had weapons now and they all wanted dinner... Somehow the guys and gals at the grills survived the rush and finally everyone was fed and ready to rumble again. A bit late because of the traffic jam at the BBQ finally the second round started (those knifes were back in the kitchen luckily...): some diplomats had fed themselves a bit too much it seems as this round saw some very high results. This time Fredegone Hendrake (F) took the best result with 47.018 points from a 14-8-6-5-1 as France. However this round saw fewer high results and fewer tables (7), probably because everyone ate too much and therefore was missing their killer instinct. Afterwards, the now already usual gaming, drinking and chatting took place while rumours went round that some players got into bed fairly early... I don't know Fredegone, but I'll bet Doug Massie was one of those up playing card games until late in the night, I remember doing that with him at World DipCon in Paris a few years ago.... I wonder if Frank was one of the early to bedders, which is why he isn't describing MORE of this...))

Saturday - Another chance for lots of nasty stabs

Once again an early breakfast with the first round that was the team round afterwards. Despite 10 boards it seemed that some players didn't sleep enough (or maybe some guys were hypermotivated because of the team thingy... ) as this round saw even more unusually high scores than the other rounds, the highest being Edi Birsan's 50.503 points from a 15-9-5-4-1 Italy but with two more results over 47 points by Cyrille Sevin (15 center Turkey) and Vincent Carry (14 center England). Amazingly enough the team round was won by a team which called itself "Five in a Row" having won the four previous EDC Team competitions. Well guessed, they were right! Congrats to Yann Clouet (F), Cyrille Sevin (F) and Fearghal O'Donnchu (Ire, better known as Twerg). ((Wow, that is a team, the reigning World DipCon champion, another two time World DipCon Champion and the dancing elf Twerg.))

After the first round the first part of the EDA (European Diplomacy Association) meeting happened. The Dutch hobby presented their bid for EDC 2005 which was accepted and welcomed by all players. Afterwards most people took their time off while some ventured into smaller workgroups to discuss charter and stuff like web presences. After dinner another round of Diplomacy was scheduled and for all those who are thinking now: "Hey wait a minute 4 rounds already and a Sunday morning round?" Yeah you're right, but players could only participate in four rounds of which the best three results were counted for the overall ranking. Anyway once again the trend continued and less players signed up for the late round which was scheduled to end around 01.00 a.m. This round was the only round without a result higher than 40 points indeed with Frank Oschmiansky (Ger) having the best result with a 39.544 in a 12-9-6-3-2-2 as France. After this round, Frank also took the Yellow shirt, but he wouldn't play on Sunday... Alternatively some players went out to enjoy the pubs and discos of Darmstadt though it certainly was fewer players than we expected. Anyway those that were out came back happy and had lots of fun. ((Oh sure, I've got it now, FRANK is a PARTY POOPER!!!))

Sunday - To win or not to win..

That was the question for around 10 to 15 players who still had a fair shot at the win without a Solo. And it showed that this round saw once more lots of hard fought games with just one very high result from Simon Bouton playing England in a 15-9-7-3 draw boosting his score with another 49.183 points. It was clear beforehand that the winner would need at least three very strong results above the 30 point mark, one of them having to be above 40 points probably.

And so it happened that an American brought the European DipCon trophy home:

Congrats to Edi Birsan for stabbing and duping the whole European hobby with a whopping 120 points overall but congrats as well to Gihan Bandaranaike (UK-111p) and Demis Hassabis (UK-100p) who came in second and third. After those on places 4 to 7 four Germans made it into the Top Seven, playing the role of good hosts "giving" the trophies to our guests:-) For all the other awards/ranking details (Best Countries etc.) please see below.

Summary

Wow, four days saw 79 players duelling on all together 41 boards. As we heard and felt during the tourney, they all had a very good time enjoying the games and the atmosphere. We hope that everybody left Germany with a good feeling and the intention to come back next year or at least in 2006 for the WDC in Berlin. We'd like to thank all our German and foreign guests once more for attending and spreading that nice atmosphere we had throughout the weekend. As well we'd like to thank all those kind souls who helped us before, during and after the tournament. We, the organizers, and the whole German hobby certainly look forward to meet you all again over here as soon as possible. And of course we will also try to visit your respective Cons in your home countries. For those that couldn't attend: Just get in contact with someone who was there and let you tell what you missed;-) C U All at least in Berlin 2006 for WDC!

The Board of the German Diplomacy Association for its members and the German hobby

From: Frank Bacher (bacchusno1 of web.de)

Players' Ranking

Rank Name Firstname Points

1 Birsan Edi 120.891

2 Bandaranaike Gihan 111.403

3 Hassabis Demis 100.084

4 Oschmiansky Frank 96.833

5 Panic Dominik 93.677

6 M�nch Joachim 91.536

7 von Schönfeldt Bogislaw 85.652

8 Bouton Simon 85.281

9 Diehl Christoph 82.488

10 Carry Vincent 80.545

11 Beer Sebastian 79.542

12 Massie Douglas 78.886

13 Kurt Igor 78.023

14 Hendrake Fredegone 76.780

15 van Rooijen Rene 76.130

16 Sebeyran Thomas 76.090

17 Sevin Cyrille 71.399

18 Hall Victor 66.543

19 Lokers Ronald 65.934

20 Wagner Moritz 65.487

21 O Donnchu Fearghal 65.129

22 Bacher Frank 65.128

23 Ziesing Julian 64.325

24 Harris Toby 64.298

25 Andersson Dennis 62.216

26 Schäfer Jörg 59.664

27 Loschek Rolf 58.747

28 Säärlainen Le� 58.544

29 Ruddeck André 57.765

30 Hardy James 57.121

31 Dijkhoff Oscar 55.990

32 Clouet Yann 55.304

33 Ilievics Andé 54.603

34 Oberscheven Björn 54.189

35 Schmitz Stephan 54.018

36 Mandy Christophe 53.620

37 Bengtsson Tage 53.375

38 Haag Peter 44.958

39 Maggi Gwen 44.461

40 Essner Fabrice 44.402

41 Kotschy Georg 44.122

42 Zarka Attila 44.090

43 Derrick Shaun 43.183

44 Juffernbruch Rolf 42.420

45 Hagemann Stefan 42.057

46 Kitz Julia 41.652

47 Jamieson John 40.679

48 Hanotin Denis 39.120

49 Luthin Lionel 35.445

50 Hilger Robert 34.591

51 Unger Stefan 33.033

52 Smith Keith 30.876

53 Lenschow Matthias 29.278

54 Hachenberg Mark 28.678

55 Thum Torsten 27.831

56 Ohage Christian 27.355

57 Krüger Dennis 26.922

58 Kröhnke Kai 26.358

59 Pietsch Burkhard 25.448

60 Bischof Lukas 24.895

61 Senftleben Arne 24.503

62 Drobny Dieter 22.091

63 Smith Eve 20.887

64 Leu Christian 20.294

65 Baier Jan 18.990

66 Brüggemann Dirk 15.947

67 Karcher David 14.117

68 Norman David 11.827

69 Schulz Martin 11.580

70 Bretschneider Clara 11.540

71 Asal Martin 11.369

72 Ross Peter 11.356

73 Drewes Martin 11.170

74 Wolf Julian 11.045

75 Klockner Marko 8.278

76 Schlesag Kord 4.878

77 Radicke Rolf 4.696

78 Ribar Ammi 1.200

79 Schmerbach Mathias 1.000

Each player could play up to four rounds in the Manorcon Scoring System. The best three rounds for each player were counted equally for the final result.

Teams' Ranking

Five in a Row (Sevin, Clouet, O'Donnchu) 80.732

Dumbbots (Kurt, Panic, Ziesing) 72.396

The friendly Neighbours (Ilievics, Juffernbruch, Bacher) 71.710

B.K. (Harris, Maggi, Sebeyran) 60.851

Three Degrees (Andersson, Hassabis, Massie) 60.572

Team America (Birsan, Karcher, Ross) 55.251

Fromage dans la Mine (Carry, Hanotin, Säärlainen) 51.760

Das Team (Diehl, Schmitz, Senftleben) 47.329

Team Wurst (Leu, Wagner, Zarka) 45.534

Bierdiplomaten (Drewes, Hagemann, van Roijen) 42.275

The Cries of the Carrots (Dijkhoff, Oschmiansky, von Schönfeldt) 41.271

Best Asians (Bandaranaike, Bouton, Hall) 41.050

Klemmbrett-Verklopper (Baier, Beer, Kröhnke) 40.133

Moritz-Wagner-Team (Jamieson, Oberscheven, Pietsch) 37.344

Zuchtbullen (Haag, Hachenberg, Thum) 33.249

French Connection (Essner, Hendrake, Luthin) 24.129

Team Zimmermann (Hilger, Kr�ger, Ruddeck) 21.401

Streichresultat (Bretschneider, Ohage, Schmerbach) 20.826

Norlanders (Bengtsson, Derrick, Lokers) 12.176

Team Payola (Bischof, Lenschow, Radicke) 7.714

FK Bodo Knatspyrxlokk (Kotschy, Schulz, Unger) 6.803

Teams' Ranking is calculated from the results of the players in the third round.

More Awards

Machiavelli Champion: Dominik Panic

Best Austria: Demis Hassabis (H5G3) (37.956 pts.)

Best England: Simon Bouton (H5G5) (49.183 pts.)

Best France: Fredegone Hendrake (H2G7) (47.018 pts.)

Best Germany: Douglas Massie (H1G9) (51.541 pts.)

Best Italy: Edi Birsan (H3G2) (50.503 pts.)

Best Russia: Frank Bacher (H5G6) (41.289 pts.)

Best Turkey: Cyrille Sevin (H3G3) (49.023 pts.)

Best Tactician: Toby Harris

Best Strategist: Edi Birsan

Funniest Player: Martin Drewes

Best Female: Julia Kitz

Best Teen: Moritz Wagner

Best Twen: Demis Hassabis

Best Thirtysomething: Edi Birsan

Special Award of the Orga-Team: David Norman

Tim Snyder (tsnyder of opii point mccombs point utexas point edu) is starting up Zine Register again. He thinks this next issue will be #30, I think that might be right. Write to Tim at 12001 Dessau Road, #825, Austin, TX 78754 by November 30, so he can finish by the end of the year. I always salute someone picking up a languishing project. It will be good to see how many szines he counts out there, I'm not sure how many really are left, I am trading with less than half a dozen in the US that are regularly producing issues, plus Northern Flame in Canada.

MUSIC AND MOVIES SECTION (WITH COMMENTS ON OTHER ARTS AND SOCIETY)

Tell me anything you like about the recent past in music. List a top two, a top ten, or a top 100, I don't care, just tell me something!!

Steve Emmert (Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:59:13 -0400)

NHL preview - 2004-05 season

(Sigh.)

Steve, steve.emmert of cox.net

((Indeed, that says it all, how about if we turn to baseball, then? We're going to go through these E-Mails in order.... just so you can see how the discussions went, follow by the dates if you want to know when what was said...))

Warren Goesle (Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:14:10 -0500)

Jim-Bob,

Ok, another MLB regular season has come and gone. Shall we look at the results?

AL East: Let's see...Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, Blue Jays, Dev...HEY!!! Wait a minute!!! Tampa Bay finished ahead of Toronto!!!! This is the first change in the standings since 1998! Lou Piniella for Manager of the Year!!! Ok, so they went 26-49 against the division. That's still 17 wins better than I thought they would do

AL Central: If you take out the Central and Interleague the Twins are 35-33. That's pretty good for a small market team. Props to them. No one else in the division did .500 that way. Note also that the Tigers finished 72-90, winning 29 more games than last year. The problem with that of course is the raised expectations, and when the Tigers have the same record next year Trammell will be canned. Too bad.

AL West: Anaheim survived their injuries. Had Oakland had the same number of injuries the division wouldn't have been close, as they still don't have the money to make it up. By all rights, the A's should be the division winner.

NL East: Will whomever was supposed to have put the stake in the Braves' hearts please check your work? 13 division titles and counting. Convince me they can't do it again next year. Go ahead. What IS the Mets' problem? This team looks more and more like the Orioles every year.

NL Central: Ok, we've played 162 games, and I'm still waiting for the Cardinals' starting pitching to look like it's supposed to. Did Bob Gibson get back in uniform through a time warp? The Astros went 36-10 over the last 7 weeks to catch and pass the Cubs for the Wild Card. That's scary on two levels: first, because they could really be the best team in the NL playoffs. Second, because the scenario is eerily reminiscent of 1969, when the Mets went 41-9 to catch and pass the Cubs, then win the WS. And speaking of the Cubs, they found a new way to frustrate their fans this year. But be advised: Cubs fans are a resiliant lot. It took 30 hours after the Cubs were eliminated for them to finish mourning, then they began preparations for the 2005 Cubs' World Series victory parade. Note that they're also planning a protest of Cubs' management the day after that parade to make sure that Sammy Sosa's 2006 option is picked up, so it's not like we're dealing with rational people here.

NL West: I keep making predictions a year too soon. I picked the Dodgers to win the West last year, but this year I figured they were destined to be the same underachievers that the Orioles have been. I'm still waiting for their hitting to look like Dodgers' hitting. Maybe in the playoffs. In retrospect, it's just as well that the Cubs didn't make the postseason, as a 7-game NLCS between them and LA might not score 20 runs. Not good TV.

Playoffs:

ALDS: Angels over Red Sox in 4, Yankees over Twins in 4.

NLDS: St. Louis over Los Angeles in 5, Astros over Braves in 4.

ALCS: Yankees over Angels in 7 (which is what I predicted pre-season).

NLCS: Houston over St. Louis in 6 (substitute the Cubs in for the Cardinals and that's what I predicted pre-season).

WS: Yankees over the former Yankees in 6, as Clemens can't pitch every game for the Astros. Where's Andy Pettitte when they need him?

As the Cubs' fans say, "Wait 'til next year!". As Pedro would say, "who's your daddy?". ((I know I'm useless, but I don't get the reference here, though I can gather the jist. Plus, Pedro was TOYING with the media. Believe it. He laughs at the way he gets them writing and scrambling.))

Goz, Warren.Goesle of cmcelectronics.us, I can't remember if I'm the good twin or the evil one.

Rick Desper (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 02:18:59 -0700 (PDT))

AL East - Interesting note: Orioles were deciding factor in the race. They won the season's series against the Sox and were simply atrocious against the Yankees.

AL Central (on the Tigers improving to 72-90) - So, Pudge's agent can say he's worth 29 wins? :) Tigers' pitching is starting to improve, esp. Bonderman. Twins have a real ace worth watching.

AL West - A's had plenty of chances to put this division away and didn't. They failed because their starting pitching failed; it's that simple. Nobody's saying "Mulder for Cy Young" anymore, eh? ((I think it is clear that Santana wins the AL Cy Young going away....)) Should be interesting to see what happens with Zito. O's want him badly. Now that Angelos has lost fight with DC expect him to try to bring in a top starter to go along with Tejada and the boys.

NL East - If I were to go to Atlanta next Spring, I would suddenly rediscover my fastball and would win 24 games.

NL Central (Cards starting pitching) - It does. It's not supposed to be very good. :) Seriously, they have a LOT of middling pitchers. The starting pitching isn't going to get them to the World Series. If they pull that off, it will because of Messrs. Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, et al. I'm not going to think about the fact that Jeff Suppan had a better season than Derek Lowe or Tim Wakefield. ((We may remember that the Red Sox picked up Suppan last year and then dumped him when he was disappointing down the stretch. And Goz thinks Gibson returned?)) Gibson never had an ERA so high, did he? ((No, we recall when Gibson had the season with the ERA of 1.12, that's when they got scared offense was going to disappear and they lowered the pitching mound. It might be time to reverse that change....)) Astros have good hitting, a couple aces and a decent bullpen. Could be scary. I remember a couple weeks ago when the Cubs blew a game on national TV with a 3-0 lead going into the 9th. Problem? They brought in LaTroy Hawkins to close. That's just not good enough.

NL West - Best thing about Dodgers was how I picked up Adrian Beltre in April off the Free Agent list in the Piggy Backers fantasy league. (BTW, if anybody wants to take over "Kid Theo's Sluggers" the team needs a new owner. It's got Beltre, Soriano, Edmonds, Berkman, Thome, Hudson, Gagne, Escobar, and Tomko. It's a keeper league with the option of keeping 3-5 players. I made it to the league finals before Escobar and Tomko reverted to form.)

Playoffs:

ALDS: Bzzt. Wrong on both counts. Sox over Angels in 4, Twins over Yankees in 5. Santana pitches two shutouts. Sox/Angels series could feature some series hitting.

NLDS: Cardinals over Dodgers in 4, Astros over Braves in 3.

ALCS: Sox over Twins in 6. Santana wins twice. Sox clobber the rest of the staff.

NLCS: Astros over Cardinals in 6.

WS: Don't forget Roy Oswalt! Sox over Astros in 7 when Schilling beats Clemens AT FENWAY! (AL has home field in World Series).

Awards:

AL MVP: Guerrero in squeaker over Ramirez. NY media is baffled that they didn't get to simply annoing Sheffield.

AL Cy Young: Santana. (Duh.)

NL MVP: Bonds.

NL Cy Young: Clemens. (*cringe*)

Rick, rick_desper of yahoo.com

Warren Goesle (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:37:10 -0500)

((On the A's collapse)): Had the Angels been healthy all year the AL West would not have been close. That the A's were in it at all should be applauded, but Anaheim had enough in the bank for replacement players when the regulars went down. This is where the money discrepency rears its head more than anywhere. The lesser-moneyed teams can sometimes (if they're smart like the A's, or in a real bad division like the Twins) put a team good enough to compete on the field...until they get an injury. The actuarial tables say that they'll have one...or two...or three...or more. It's harder for Oakland to make a replacement than Anaheim. This is where Jim-Bob's theories of baseball fail. You can point out all year how much better the, say, Red Sox starting infielders are than the Yankees. But you have to factor in the second stringers too, as they play a lot of innings, both regular season and playoffs.

((On Zito and the O's)): Assuming that DC actually gets the team (and from what I hear that's 50-50 at best with all that has to happen) will Angelos actually put money into his? First, he wants to sell, and a prospective buyer is going to want the salary structure that the O's have in place...i.e., front-loaded, so the team will be cheap to run in the future. Second, if he holds onto it he's guaranteed $$$ out of MLB, so why bother putting a decent product on the field? I have to turn to you for the answer to that question, as we don't get that kind of info in Chicago.

((On the Cubs blowing saves)): As of last I knew (which I think was last Thursday), the Cubs had blown 25 save opportunities during the year. The one guy they never replaced (not for lack of trying) was the injured Joe Boroski. Not that he's going to make anyone forget Rivera or Gagne, but he was the best the Cubs had starting the season. I've lost track of him in the last few months, and don't remember if he's coming back (or even what his injury was...seems like it was end of May when it happened). It'll be a big puzzle piece to fill for the Cubs off-season.

((On Sox winning with Schilling over Clemens in WS Game 7)): Red Sox fans are an interesting bunch. The above statement would have more validity if I wasn't aware of the fact that, had they NOT made the playoffs, you'd still be predicting they win the WS (this is where Cubs' fans diverge...they'll mourn for a day after they're eliminated and then prepare the victory parade for the next year...Red Sox fans are still telling me how they're going to beat the Yankees LAST year). But I don't see the end of the world coming, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong here. If not, I'll tip my cap to you too, and call you my daddy. Jim-Bob won't mind.

Goz, If you must be indiscreet, please be indiscreet discreetly.

Rick Desper (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:34:48 -0700 (PDT))

((Rick commenting on Expos chances of ending up in DC)): I think it's more than that. But I've been out of DC for 10 days.

((And on what Angelos will do)): Before this past season, I would have pegged Angelos as a skinflint of the Loria/Pohlad mold, quite willing to bitch and moan and use the team for what he wanted without trying to field a winner. But the previous offseason, he went out and got Miguel Tejada, Javy Lopez, and Rafiel Palmeiro, as well as bringing back Sidney Ponson. Tejada has been terrific and Lopez has been pretty good, too. I think Angelos' ego is too big to not want to field a winner. Their problem this past season was a real lack of starting pitching. But they've got enough hitting to be competitive, if they were to add Zito and maybe one more pitcher. Their young pitchers have been developing steadily. Unfortunately for the O's, "competitive" won't achieve much in their division - it takes more than 95 wins to even register on the radar. ((And I do agree that is the problem in the AL East with the Red Sox and the Yankees there, that I do agree is a problem that you don't want to solve with more Wild Cards, I don't think.))

((Rick's comeback on Red Sox fans)): I'm not that much of a homer. But the Sox did have a better team than the Yankees last year. They just had the wrong manager. I'm not sold on Francona, BTW.

Rick

((I'll let Rick take all the credit.... the Red Sox will benefit from the WS home field advantage WHEN they get there, but only as long as New England doesn't go into a deep freeze. We've been cool and will get cooler. Those night games are going to be COLD!))

((And on picking up for injuries as a big difference between big spending and small spending teams, I don't disagree, but the Red Sox had an amazing bench, though the Yankees didn't and don't. This is the primary advantage for the Red Sox over the Yankees this year, I think. You keep giving my theories a level of precision that they don't have. I say, and I will say again if the Red Sox don't win the WS and (say) the Twins do, that in the playoffs the record is clear, it is TEAMS that win the WS. The Yankees haven't won it since they lost their "team guys" of Brosius and O'Neill. There are lots of guys like that on other teams than the Red Sox and Yankees.))

((Of the teams in the playoffs, to me, the REAL teams that have a shot of winning are (other than the Red Sox, which seem to have the Party Central crazy team this year) the Twins, the Angels, the Astros, and MAYBE the Cardinals (though I think the Cards have had it). Your favorite Dodgers and Braves ;-) have no chance and are just playing to see who doesn't get to the WS. I also think the Twins likely will beat the Yankees this time.))

((On the Expos to DC, are you thinking that the announcement is just window dressing?? DC will get it, everyone but Angelos wants them to get it, and they would have a huge public relations disaster if they DON'T get it after announcing it. I'd be interested in Rick's take on it, but the O's probably LOST value overnight when the announcement was made, so why would Angelos sell now? After the team comes in and it STINKS for a while, then the O's will show that they still have value (as I believe they do).))

((And finally, on the Red Sox and the Astros in the playoffs, I think Rick's scenario is VERY, VERY, VERY plausible. I think that's where we're headed.))

Warren Goesle (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:43:09 -0500)

((On the Expos to DC deal)): Bear in mind it has already been a PR disaster, as this should have been done months ago (maybe years ago). I think the announcement was actually rushed as it stands. The DC Buds (I think this name will stick...it has built-in sponsorship possibilities) still need a stadium, a parking lot, a concession stand, someone to manage the concession stand, someone to manage whoever manages the concession stand, a few local ordanaces overturned (if it's in the city of DC itself this won't be hard, as there are enough politicians on the take there), a traffic flow study, environmental impact statement, a fan base, tickets printed, etc. It looks like a real good program management job for whoever wins "Apprentice 2", assuming that Trump buys the team (oh, don't they need an owner besides MLB too?).

But right now Angelos could sell, and he's got a guarantee from MLB of the selling price. So if it's now or 2008 he gets the same. It seems like that's a non-issue. So to answer your question, 'yes', I do think it's just window dressing. I don't think Angelos is the roadblock anymore, it's logistics.

Am I missing something here? As I said, this news doesn't always filter out this way, so I could be.

((Now Goz makes perfectly reasonable fun of the Red Sox fans)): I think it's plausible that I could win the lottery too. Just the same, I'm keeping the 401K. I still think it's unfair that you're not a betting man, as I could have retired to a nice sunny beach by now (25 freakin' degrees when I woke up this morning!).

Goz

((DC has the safety valve of RFK stadium, so they can go forward with that and then work out all these issues on the new stadium. That's why I ask Rick for the local view..... what you do in business is to make these announcements to shame all the politicians into not "losing face" by having to back out. There is then a whole lot of angst, but I STRONGLY doubt that this is 50-50, it probably is 99.5-0.5. They don't want to lose the deal.))

Dave Partridge (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:05:50 -0700 (PDT))

The deal requires a vote by the city to build a new park, and says that they will play at least 3 seasons at RFK so that they can go ahead with the move now. I'd say it's pretty certain to happen at this point.

Of course who will own the team is an interesting question. And will they have deep enough pockets to really compete? (<:

I'm not really a follower of baseball, but my take on it is that it's certainly the case that you can buy your way into the playoffs (nothing's guaranteed of course, but it comes close) but to win it all takes a team mentality as Jim said, and it's harder to buy that. What I really want to know is how much does it cost to get a curse removed (<:.

I think that looking at the NFL shows the remarkable success of a well done cap strategy. The players aren't hurting, the owners aren't hurting and parity really is a reality.

Sox win it all because they never have to play the Yankees so Pedro's daddy won't be there to make him nervous. Clemens wins his game though.

Dave, rebhuhn of rocketmail.com

Rick Desper (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:09:30 -0700 (PDT))

As I understand it, the deal to move to DC was announced as late as it was because MLB was facing a RICO-type suit in Montreal by aggrieved fans. And, due to recent DC elections, three pro-baseball city council members were due to leave office soon, so they had to come to a deal quickly. So they did. Incidentally, one of the newly elected city councilmen is Marion Barry.

Rick

Dave Partridge (Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:28:53 -0700 (PDT))

Gotta love the Web. Not as good as watching it, but down in the corner the little screen is showing me a 7 run inning and still counting!!! Who me, of course I'm working.

((Gee, I'm doing PRECISELY the same thing (it is now 8-1), I'm watching on the pitch by pitch version on Major League Baseball GameDay, that I kinda like.))

Rick Desper (Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:18:56 -0700 (PDT))

Hey, I was 3-3 for Games 1! (Game 1s? I'll assume that `1' in this context is a rare "adjective after the noun".)

Rick Desper (Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT))

El Presidente is back!

ANAHEIM, Calif. (Reuters) - Dennis Martinez pitched seven innings and Manny Ramirez (news) drove in the go-ahead run with a sacrifice fly to power the Boston Red Sox (news) to an 8-3 win over the Anaheim Angels (news) in the American League Divisional Series (ALDS) Wednesday.

Nice to see the Sox are taking care of business in my absence. And apparently Pedro will be rested for game 3!

((Did Reuters SERIOUSLY put that up?? ;-) I want El Presidente on our side....))
((I actually think Pedro is STILL setting everyone up (have you heard John Kruk's comments on this??). Last night was STILL a Spring Training, just work the fast ball, start. He's been pacing himself to be dominant in the next two series. I'm absolutely positive of it. The rest of this is an act. You will see in Game 1/2 of the Yankees series. I'll be surprised if it isn't Game 2, since they should beat the Angels in one of the next two.))

Warren Goesle (Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:13:33 -0500)

They must have different roster rules for the ALDS. Do the Angels have Reggie Jackson, or do the Yankees?

Warren Goesle (Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:32:17 -0500)

I've looked at Houston as THE most likely challenger to the Cubs for the WC since they got Beltran. Sadly, I'm correct. If the Cubs' effort was up to their talent, even with the injuries, they'd have won the WC with ease, and been close to the division. But right now I'm burning my "Dusty for Manager of the Year" t-shirt.

((This one's a bit out of order, I'm printing up my Tito for Manager of the Year t-shirt.... let's see where this little adventure heads next. Right about now things were lookin' really, really good....))

Warren Goesle (Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:57:04 -0500)

Q1: Has anyone ever seen Phil Garner and Grady Little photographed together?

Q2: Does anyone else have this queasy feeling about the Braves this year? I'm almost tempted to print up 2004 World Series Champs t-shirts...

Q3: Does anyone East of Philadelphia know that no one West of Philadelphia cares who wins a Red Sox/Yankees ALCS?

A columnist in the Chicago Tribune wrote today that if the Red Sox win it all, the Cubs should use their model for success: raise the payroll from $91M to $125M. He's really hoping that the Yankees *don't* win it...

Rick Desper (Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:39:40 -0700 (PDT))

Q1: No.

It occurred to me, after watching the Twins and Astros lose their respective Games Four, that managers should Really Learn that pitchers who are aces with four days rest are not aces with three days rest. The only advantage the Twins had over the Yankees was Santana: pitching him with 3 days rest watered down that advantage. Still, the real problem was the bullpen. Few things I hate more than watching a struggling reliever facing a batter who is a GREAT mistake hitter, and failing, and thus losing a relatively large lead.

Q2: Nope.

t-shirts...: Don't bother. The Braves are not very strong.

Q3: I'm West of Philadelphia. I care. :P

Cubs payroll: The Cubs can afford it. The Cubs play in the third largest city in the US, they have a sweet cable TV deal, and have a fairly wealthy fan base. Their cheap ownership has been the main problem for years. Their problems this year were more injury-related than fundamental. Presuming Wood and Prior make comebacks next year, they should be considered one of the favorites.

Warren Goesle (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:00:05 -0500)

Braves: They were strong enough to get to Game 5 of the NLDS. That oughta count for something. They got within 9 games of winning the World Series. That puts them ahead of all but 4 teams. So if they're not very strong, there's a real imbalance in baseball.

Q3: Ok, fine. So other than transplanted New Yorkers and New Englanders...

Cubs payroll: Can baseball afford it? If there's 6 teams over $110M and 6 teams below $55M can baseball afford it? Granted, the Cubs probably could afford it, but the White Sox, who tend to draw only anti-Cubs' fans, could not. So if we're going to say that the only teams that are allowed to win are from this set of, say, 12 or so, why bother having the Pirates, Royals, White Sox, etc.? I've said before that money doesn't always equal success, but lack of money almost always equals failure. I still think that MLB should contract any team who isn't serious. Let's define that as not having won a World Series in the last 60 years. That'll cut down 11 right there...

((Don't think we don't see the "trick" in here....))

Dave Partridge (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:08:27 -0700 (PDT))

Good idea, save us Sox fans all that agony. We're serious, but shouldn't be. In a radical change, the Sox announce that their starting lineup for all games of the series with the Yankees will be Martinez, Arroyo, Shilling. Each will pitch 3 innings and then stop before they get tired. If it works out, they are considering getting rid of all the closers and any other pitcher who's making more than the average grocery store clerk and can't pitch more than an inning or two. Cutting the pitching staff from 28 to 5 should trim the payroll considerably....

Rick Desper (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT))

The Braves are built for the regular season, and that's been their problem for most of the past decade. They've always had great depth in their starting rotation, a decent bullpen, and reasonable hitting, but, at least since Glavine and Maddux started declining, they have not had respectable aces.

The current formula for postseason success is:

- at least two aces pitching (one of whom could simply be a talented pitcher pitching over his head, like Beckett or Wakefield last October).

- a stacked bullpen

- good fielding

- clutch hitting

The Braves have most of that, but not all. And yeah, there is real imbalance in baseball. But the 13-time repeat champions of their divisions are not a case study in that problem.

((I entirely agree..... On two aces, yes, the Red Sox may well have three if Arroyo keeps pitching as he has, which will lead to them killing the Cardinals too. I don't think at this point that Houston will make it, but they CAN. Only the Red Sox REALLY have this among the remaining teams, perhaps the Astros do.))
((The stacked bullpen is really important. The games are won in the 6-8 innings, doesn't matter so much if you have a lights out closer, the stacking is most important. Lately, all four of the teams left have been exhibiting this in reasonably similar proportions.))
((On fielding, the Red Sox changes are most important here, strangely enough. You need to not beat yourself. Pretty much all of the first round series to one extent or another were given away. I paid most attention to Anaheim's giveaways, but they all did it. The Yankees are MOST likely to give away something in the next round, which is NOT good for them.))
((And clutch hitting is what will make the two series exciting! All four teams have this big time. Expect to see some amazing clutch hitting. The Braves especially did not have the clutch hitting of the Astros. Last night's game was REALLY obvious on this score. The Astros themselves blew it in a couple of places too.))
((On imbalance, I agree with this, the problem is the lower level teams taking the money and running. On a % of budget basis the Yankees and Red Sox and Braves are NOT the biggest profit money makers. They spend and put resources back in.))

Q3: :) Seriously, that's a LOT of people you're talking about. The Sox draw considerable numbers of fans as a visiting team, even in Anaheim in a playoff game! As for the Yankees, the baseball hat that you'll see most often in Europe has `NY' on it.

Baseball should restructure itself, in the interests of retaining competitive balance. It won't do that anytime in the near future.

((Answer to why bother to have bottom market teams:)) So people like Beltran have somewhere to play before they join the Yankees?

((Eliminate everyone who hasn't won a WS in the last 60 years:)) The Diamondbacks are more serious than the Red Sox? Pshaw!

Warren Goesle (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:11:14 -0500)

Cuts out the Red Sox, Devil Rays, White Sox, Mariners, Rangers (who may stay on a technicality...the Senators won a WS somewhere in that time frame), Expos, Cubs, Brewers, Astros, Padres, Rockies. No great loss.

((Dave's 3 innings per pitching idea from above:)) A friend of mine suggested this 30 years ago. From what I know of what they do with starting pitchers (which isn't really all that much) and their workouts, you could probably do it with 2 sets of 3, and have them pitch every other game. Think someone could get 40 wins this way?

((Not the starting pitcher.... I wonder how much that stops anyone from trying it? Goz continually gets hung up on the Braves, probably because they are ubiquitous on a cable channel that I don't get. I think that the Braves and the Yankees are starting to fall into the same hole, perennial playoff spots, but no World Series appearances or titles. Obviously the Braves are there entirely. The Yankees are almost there. And we'll see if the Red Sox destroy them in this series, in which case they'll be there too. Goz gets equally distracted with me by claiming that it is NOT a fair system if the Braves and Yankees are two of the eight postseason teams every damned year. It also is true that you cannot form a coalition of teams to change this. I accept the reality and move on....))
((Hmm, interesting, what chance is there that Beltran DOESN'T move to the Yankees in the off-season? And if he does, will the Yankees play appreciably better next season?? Those are worthwhile questions...... Oh yeah, and serious is not results, serious is effort. And money is only one part of effort. But we don't ever sway you on that.))

Rick Desper (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:37:58 -0700 (PDT))

The Yankees want Beltran to take over from Bernie. Few teams can compete with the Yankees on any given contract: the Braves, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, Orioles, Mets, Cardinals, Rangers, and Astros might have the money to do so. The Braves have Andruw Jones, the Cardinals have Jim Edmonds, the Sox and Angels have stacked outfields, and the Rangers just ditched ARod's contract, so I don't see them replacing that burden with a new one. The only teams I see with the NY teams competing are LA and the Orioles. But I think it's considerably more than likely that he'll go to NY. And probably to the Yankees, not the Mets. (The Mets have to give up on their recent "Instant Rebuilding" strategy and start from scratch again.)

Will the Yankees be a better team? Beltran has never struck me to be a great clutch hitter. He doesn't make me fearful the way the old-time Yankees have done. The problem is that the Yankees are becoming a bit of a Roto super-team, as opposed to a good team at winning big games.

The Yankees' real problem right now is their starting pitching. Mussina, Brown, Lieber, and El Duque are all on their decline, and Vazquez just doesn't have the nerve to be a big-time Yankee pitcher. They need a number of younger arms (and Loaiza is not the answer). Even the magical Mariano Rivera is not as unhittable as he used to be.

I don't think the Yankees will reach the heights of their 1998-2000 accomplishments until they get an entirely new generation of players, at least pitching. Jeter may still be around when this happens, but pretty none of the other current Yankees will be.

Except, of course, Ruben Sierra. :)

((Ruben Sierra is an amazing clutch hitter, he's the Yankee I fear the most this week......))

Rick Desper (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:04:18 -0700 (PDT))

Damn, is Tim McCarver stupid!! While Curt Schilling, obviously not in top form, is getting beaten around to the tune of six runs in three innings, McCarver:

a) implies that bringing in a relief pitcher is equivalent to "giving up on the game"

and

b) later, since Schilling has been taken out early, he'll be able to come back for Game 4, if necessary.

WTF???? Regarding (a), I really think Francona should have yanked Schilling long before the game became completely out of hand. Did we really need to see Matsui clear the bases in the 3rd to know that something was wrong??

Regarding (b), why would an injured Schilling be preferable to a healthy starter?

*sigh* Bad luck with Schilling. Good job by the Sox making a game of it.

Mark D. Lew (Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:16:46 -0700)

Hey Jim-Bob,

I started writing a preview for the A's in 05, either for TAP or Benzene or both, I hadn't really decided yet. It got way too long and rambling, so I threw it all out and maybe I'll try it again with something shorter.

Anyway, along the way I remembered something I wanted to tell you about the Ramon Hernandez trade we discussed here last year. Since then I've learned a bit about how it came about. It was Padres GM Kevin Towers who initiated it. Mark Kotsay was one of those players like Erubiel Durazo whom Billy Beane had been chasing after for a while. He had tried to draft him out of college and he had tried to get him in trade when Florida was dismantling their championship team a few years back. Everyone in the business knew that Beane wanted Kotsay, including Kevin Towers.

After the 2003 season, Towers got it in his head that he wanted to get Ramon Hernandez. Of course, Hernandez was a star then, and Towers knew Beane wouldn't give him up easily, so he started right out by offering up Kotsay. That got Billy's attention and they negotiated a deal around that. So it's not that Billy Beane made a point of putting Hernandez out as bait knowing that he was overvalued, it's just that when an opportunity came along to trade him up for something even better, he took it. ((OK, that makes even a bit more sense. Matches what happened really well.))

Maybe I'll try again some time with the A's preview. Short version: Redman will go; other starters will stay (for 05, anyway). Bullpen will be completely rearranged, as usual. Dye will definitely move. He'll have a good season elsewhere, which will make the budget-ignorant fans all wonder aloud why he was let go. Chavez, Crosby, Hatteberg, Kotsay will stay. Durazo probable, Byrnes maybe, Miller doubtful.

mdl, markdlew of earthlink.net

((Thanks, I hope you're enjoying this other trail of messages in real time...))

Warren Goesle (Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:28:29 -0500)

Ok, there's WAAY too much from last night to respond to today, so it'll have to wait, but a couple of points...

((I didn't say it explicitly, but I'd always been betting on Pedro to be the one to win the game to take Boston back home 1-1, which is all you really need in a 7 game series. I'm annoyed a bit more than Rick at Tim McCarver, so I finally turned him off to listen to Joe and Jerry, our radio guys. Also, interestingly, the Yankees scored all their runs while my wife Charlotte was watching and the Red Sox scored all their runs while she wasn't. I'm not sure if I'm letting her watch any more, luckily we will be at choir practice for the first three innings of tonight's game, so the Red Sox should come out to an early lead before we tune in.))

1. The media here say that the only two bidders on Beltran will be the Cubs and the Yankees. Draw your own conclusions...I actually don't have any on that one.

((I agree that the Cubs will be under huge pressure to join the Red Sox has the other high payroll team chasing (or more properly NOT chasing) the Yankees.))

2. As is usual, Jim-Bob takes half a point and runs the wrong way with it. I attribute this to the fact that he's convinced that the Red Sox have been the best team in baseball every year since 1919 (maybe before too), and the fact that the Yankees have 26 WS titles since then doesn't even register with him. But if a team only has $55M to spend on players, does it really matter if they spend $55M or $35M? Some teams (Florida, San Diego...) are actually dumping salaries after a good year to save up for a run in 4-5 years. Sometimes it works. Then they have to dump again. Let me put the spin another way: you never see the Red Sox (Evil Empire #2) doing that.

((Sigh, I don't think so, I think that's what you're doing. I'm NOT talking about the pre-Steinbrenner era at all. In my childhood years, I had to deal with the Yankees as champions, my mother as a huge Yankees fan (she still is) and then the Yankees went in the toilet in the late 60's (I always think of Horace Clarke as emblematic of the bad players of that era). But, after Steinbrenner came in, you had waves of periods when the Boss allowed someone else to build real teams, and he won WS's; and then other periods when the Boss tried to buy WS and they didn't. I'm asserting they are in one of those periods now and won't win the WS this year. If they do, you will be WELL justified in laughing at me about it. I have had and continue to have all the respect in the world for the O'Neill, Brosius led teams that won WS's before this team. That team was REALLY hard to dislike, really! But the smaller teams, DO have to use ALL their resources (not taking $20 million of their resources out for profits) to try to win. Some do, and those I praise and they occasionally win WS, and some don't. And some I think MIGHT be doing it (e.g. the Brewers) but turns out they're really not. IF all the teams actively played with as much intensity off the field as the A's, Reds, Padres, Rangers, etc. (all teams that don't have a huge amount of resources) the game as a whole would be MUCH better. You would still have the Yankees and Braves as two of the teams in the playoffs every year, and it is frustrating for the DRays, Orioles, and BJays that they have two perennial playoff challengers in their division, but that's the way it is. Accept it and move on, urge on the teams that aren't trying.))

3. Why is it, with no pitches yet fired in anger in the NLCS, no one thinks that Houston stands a chance? The Cards will get their runs, the Astros will have to match them, what does it matter which pitcher they get them off of? It's not like Clemens and Oswalt won't be on the roster for this series. Oh, sorry, you guys aren't paying attention to this one...

((Not me, I'm paying lots of attention and I've said from the beginning of the playoffs that Cards or Astros, both have a good chance. They still do. It will go 6-7 games and also be really exciting. I intend to pay lots of attention to it. I like both teams somewhat on some levels and not on other levels. I'm not ROOTING for one or the other.))

4. If the Red Sox somehow manage to win the World Series, they will NOT be considered "Underdogs who shocked the world". Deal with it.

((OK, I certainly agree with that. But if they do, they will beat the Yankees who've spent (even with the obscenely high RS payroll) 50% more than them. That makes them something of an underdog. But it won't be like a Marlins, Angels, or Diamondbacks victory, agreed.))

Dave Partridge (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:15:21 -0700 (PDT))

Little Timmy was in his 4th grade class when the teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living. All the typical answers came up-fireman, policeman, salesman, etc...

Timmy was being uncharacteristically quiet and so the teacher asked him about his father. "My father's an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off all his clothes in front of other men. Sometimes, if the offer's really good, he'll go out to the alley with some guy and make love with him for money." The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some coloring, and took Little Timmy aside to ask him, "Is that really true about your father?" "No," said Timmy, "He plays for the Red Sox, but I was too embarrassed to say so."

((Hey, I'll stand up and take the heat, I've not given up yet (for those of you who aren't local, expect another rain filled game like last night's debacle in St. Louis or a rainout here tonight). If the Red Sox DO win, it will be all the sweeter, and if they lose, I'll still be proud to say I'm a Red Sox fan..... as I root for the Astros OR the Cardinals in the World Series (no, I don't think the Astros are out of it yet either....). As the Yankees know, 'cause they have Yogi Berra, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.....))

Rick Desper (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:53:08 -0700 (PDT))

:( I usually just delete extra copies of an email, but...Dave, did you need to send me this one twice???? :(

p.s. how much rain do we need in Boston to get Schilling back in the rotation? Should we be talking to Noah?

Dave Partridge (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:09:54 -0700 (PDT))

You mean like you just did to me? The problem is that somehow we're all in the CC list and the To list, so we seem to be sending everyone multiple copies. I cleared the CC for this one. I'll be doing my rain dance today at lunch. Anyone know anyone who does cloud seeding?

Rick Desper (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:24:19 -0700 (PDT))

((On the double copies...)) Exactly! (That was intentional, BTW) I usually take a look to cut out repeated addresses and sometimes I cut out my own address (which is added as a CC sometimes).

((On cloud seeding)) Howling Mad Murdoch, for one. Oh, you mean "other than fictional TV characters from the 80s". Sorry, can't help you.

Warren Goesle (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:40:17)

I hate to actually agree with Jim-Bob, but I mostly agree with Jim-Bob. All I heard yesterday from the national media was that the Red Sox are toast. So I hypothesized. Let's say that they win the next 2. My guess is that the national media will say that the Yankees are toast. Then if NY wins game 5, it goes back, and the Red Sox win game 6 it goes back again...until Bernie Williams hits an 0-2 curve out in the bottom of the 9th with 2 on and 2 out for a 5-4 Yankees win.

Seems as likely as anything. ((Much more likely than what actually happened.... this is a added at the end note of course....))

Houston I'll have to ponder. I think the Red Sox have a shot, but the Astros' probability is smaller. But it ain't over 'til the count reaches 4 games.

((BACK TO WHAT I SAID THEN REPEATED FOR GOOD MEASURE: Hey, I'll stand up and take the heat, I've not given up yet (for those of you who aren't local, expect another rain filled game like last night's debacle in St. Louis or a rainout here tonight). If the Red Sox DO win, it will be all the sweeter, and if they lose, I'll still be proud to say I'm a Red Sox fan..... as I root for the Astros OR the Cardinals in the World Series (no, I don't think the Astros are out of it yet either....). As the Yankees know, 'cause they have Yogi Berra, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.....))

Rick Desper (Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:03:55 -0700 (PDT))

The strange thing about the Sox' current predicament is that this is the first time since 1978 I can think of where they've been the victim of simple bad luck.

Looking back:

2003: Last year the problem was managerial incompetence. Still, what was up with Wakefield being unhittable last year? Freakish.

1999: Yankees were simply better.

1995: Indians were much better. Clemens failing as team ace.

1988, 1990: As were better. Clemens getting beaten by Stewart.

1986: Bullpen was Sox' vulnerability, and we all knew it. Mets were a more complete team. Only Bruce Hurst pitching the best baseball of his life made this series go 7 games.

1978: before this year, this was the best Sox team I'd ever seen. Problem was they were stuck with Torrez in the playoff game because the race was so tight they could not use Eck or Tiant. But I'd have to say I didn't expect Bucky Dent to beat us.

1975: a truly great World Series. Somebody had to win, and Tiant could only pitch so many times. This Reds team was one of the best teams ever and should have been favored to win.

Really, this is the first time I can think of where a major injury to an irreplaceable player has hit the Sox. Sox are not out of it, but being 0-2 with Schilling most likely done leaves them in a bad spot. Mostly, they need to start hitting better. Certainly Arroyo can pitch well enough to win Game 3. And Pedro can pitch well enough to win his next start. But Wakefield and/or Lowe are going to have to seriously step up from where they pitched in September, AND the Sox bats need to get going.

It can happen. But the Yankees should be favored at this point.

:( Sad thing is that all season, we've been talking about how THIS IS THE YEAR, largely because they won't be able to keep this team together. The Sox are not going to pay Pedro ace money at this stage (though they should think seriously about doing that), and Lowe is definitely gone.

*frump*

Most annoying thing are the grinning idiot fair-weather Yankees fans who actually believe in a curse.

((Amazing, if I didn't know better I would think that there IS a curse, a curse that requires EVERY possible permutation of failure to be experienced. It does make being a Red Sox fan the epitome of the deep mystery of life and death.))

Rick Desper (Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:18:52 -0700 (PDT))

There is no curse. Keep in mind that the Yankees have a considerably larger payroll. Only they can start from a pennant-winning team and add Sheffield and ARod.

Paul Rauterberg (Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:16:19 -0500)

19 runs?

Hey Jim; Looks like the Sox aren't even trying....

-Paul, trauterberg of wi.rr.com

Warren Goesle (Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:30:35 -0500)

As a social experiment (which could be done on a lot of sports' fans), I'm conducting a poll in the wake of a baseball game which ended well after the school children interested in it should have gone to bed (but probably didn't):

What is the mood of Red Sox Nation currently?

I ask this in the wake of both of last year's LCS, where I was actually worried that you guys had all jumped off a bridge (with 1 million of your closest friends) after Game 7 of the ALCS, and most all of the Cubs' fans (?) jumped ship after the Bartman game, which was only Game 6 (Game 7 at Wrigley, but apparently no one thought it was anything other than a coronation of the Marlins' NL championship).

Dave Partridge (Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:38:31 -0700 (PDT))

Well, first of all I'm not sure I really qualify as a member of Red Sox nation because I'm not really a follower of baseball, and while I root for the Sox when I have to choose, I'm certainly not a dedicated fan.

That being said, my mood is fairly unaffected. I was a bit pumped after the sweep, it was a grand time to be a Boston sports fan, but after the first two games I'd lost that boost and the 3rd one just put a cap on it. Didn't even bother staying up to see the end of last night after they failed to close it out in the 9th. I'll be pumped again if we pull if off, but I'm not expecting any miracles.

((I stayed up to the joyous bitter end.... it ain't over until it's over.... but I too am not expecting miracles. My mood is mostly affected from lack of sleep right now....))

Rick Desper (Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:58:47 -0700 (PDT))

My mood could be described as "crazed".

Look - if you wanted the greatest comeback of all time, the script is ready for it. The Sox were down to the 9th inning, down 3 games to 0, down 4-3, with Mariano Rivera pitching and the 7-8-9 hitters due up.

It could not possibly be bleaker! And then they tie and go into extra innings, and win in the 12th.

So I figure today the Sox bats are going to crush Mussina (who never pitches well twice in a row...an instant stat I made up that doesn't contradict any vague recollections) and Pedro will win easily. (He has been pitching well, after all.)

Then for game 6, we'll see Schilling has amputated his troublesome foot, and is pitching off a peg leg, which gives increased support. He pitches a complete game shutout, and the Sox win 1-0.

That brings up game 7, at which point the Yankees are quaking in their boots for fear of what Steinbrenner and the fans will do if they collapse worse than the Sox have EVER collapsed (the Sox, after all, have never blown a 3-0 series lead - nobody in baseball has!)

I can't see this game clearly, but I know the Sox will win to set up a Sox/Astros Series, with Kerry rooting on the Sox at Fenway while W. roots for them in Texas. The entire focus of the nation comes down upon the World Series, Red vs. Blue, AL vs. NL, Good vs. Clemens.

Sadly for the Astros, the Rapture strikes during game 7, as Johnny Damon reveals "Duh, I'm Jesus already!", leading the Saved into heaven and leaving the Astros with only 3 players left on the field. The Sox minus Damon (not many born-again in Boston) win easily as the Earth cracks open and swallows up the sinners.

((Yeah, that's it!!! We believe!!!))

Dave Partridge (Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:18:10 -0700 (PDT))

I want some of what he had for breakfast!!!

Warren Goesle (Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:58:16 -0500)

So, after exhaustive study, I find Dave fatalistic, Rick delusional, Jim-Bob overcaffeinated. So not much has changed in Red Sox land. But if you guys could learn to say "Wait 'til next year!" you could qualify as Cubs' fans.

Rick Desper (Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT))

Delusional? Ha!

Forecast calls for rain today in NY. I'm trying to decide who needs a day off more: the Sox or the Yankees. Though the Yankee bullpen is reeling, I think the Sox could use an extra day to have a viable insurance plan (other than, ugh, Ramiro Mendoza) in case Schilling cannot pitch. I think with an extra day, Arroyo would be a viable backup plan, with Lowe saved for Game 7 and Wakefield to plug any gaps. (Pedro is the only pitcher who I think is definitely done for the series.)

If Schilling can pitch his game, I favor him over Lieber. If not, the Sox will have to do some serious scrambling.

I continue to be amazed that the Twins cut David Ortiz.

Dave Partridge (Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT))

Say what you will about the ways the system is broken (and it is), it has certainly succeeded in producing a great playoff series this year. Never did get to see any of the NLCS game, it started two hours after the ALCS one and finished first!

((Answering Rick on Schilling...)) Ayup. If Schilling is on I think there's a very good change of game 7. If not, all we can hope is that Lieber doesn't pitch like he did the last time.

((On Ortiz)): How did he do for the Twins? Sometimes the change of venue is what's needed. The Bengals were right to get rid of Corey Dillon, even though he's been a great asset to the Patriots. He wasn't a great asset to Cincinnati.

((Yeah, that's about right, he was only a part time player in Minnesota. He was OK, but he wasn't what he is now. Still, I agree with Rick, they shouldn't have cut him given what the Red Sox were able to sign him for that first time.))

Warren Goesle (Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:20:59 -0500)

As long as we're all being delusional, wouldn't the best script be if Pedro pitches 18 shutout innings the next 2 nights in NY? Or did that happen last year?

"Good vs Clemens"? Isn't that what the Yankees' fans would say? Oh, wait a minute...

Rick Desper (Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:25:03 -0700 (PDT))

The Yankees could have tried to re-sign Clemens. They didn't. The way Clemens left Boston was much worse: he had a secret, illegal deal in place with the ownership in Toronto that let him move to the Yankees.

Plus, Clemens dogged it for many years on the Sox in the 1980s. He became a better pitcher after leaving for Toronto.

((And this is why my wife Charlotte hates NO past or present Red Sox player more than Roger Clemens. And you're not quite right about the shut out, Bernie DID get that homer, but 4-1 in the 8th is not chopped liver. You can't count any chickens, but it looks good. Way to get Curt "Willis" Schilling.))

Rick Desper (Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:37:39 -0700 (PDT))

"Delusional" appears to have carried the day.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Dave Partridge (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:28:34 -0700 (PDT))

It's grand to be a Boston sports fan. If the lows weren't so low the highs wouldn't be so high. Even if we don't win the WS this will go down as a GOOD year!

This weekend we have the Sox in the WS and the undefeated Pats playing the undefeated Jets. Doesn't get much better.

Dave ,,`to heck with fatalism, delusion is much more fun" Partridge

Harold Reynolds (Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:06 AM)

Whoo, the Damn Yankess are on vacation now! I guess the Red Sox decided that it's time to raise the art of choking to a new level... 8-) 8-)

Paul Rauterberg (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:03:15 -0500)

Now they just have to beat the Damn Cards....

Rick Desper (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:10:11 -0700 (PDT))

Don't count out the Astros so quickly. Consider the starting pitchers tonight: Roger Clemens vs. Jeff Suppan. (Both former Red Sox, BTW).

Astros have good hitting, but I think the Cards are slightly better (but the Yankees lineup was not weak, nor the Angels for that matter). I think the Astros have better pitching, but the Cards have more pitching.

I haven't decided what I want: the rematch of 1946 and 1967 with the Cards, or the Sox/Astros matchup which would neatly parallel the Presidential race.

((I think that Rick still has it right, at least partly. Schilling will pitch games 2 and 6 so he doesn't have to bat. But Roger Clemens will win tonight and then pitch games 3 and 7. The delusionals have Red Sox in 7 with Red Sox fans derisively chanting Ro-GER, Ro-GER... in that last game. Roger representing the 25 cabs for 25 players of the failed past. We believe....I'm betting for sure on Schilling in 2, 6, Clemens in 3, 7. Looks like we might have Lowe in 3, 7 against Clemens. I can't recall, weren't Lowe and Clemens teammates for a year? Maybe not. To me, that leaves Pedro in games 1 and 5 going against Oswalt. I'll be shocked if they're playing the Cardinals, but that won't change the Red Sox rotation.))

((PS People around here in Boston who don't like John Kerry are really annoyed about overgeneralizing Blue state/Red State comparisons... and even worse, you do understand that the Red Sox are RED, the color of Curt Schilling's blood on his sock, and that doesn't match with Kerry and a blue state mentality either.... does it. I still see merit in seeing an Astros vs. Red Sox series, probably ending on Halloween, two days before the election, lining up against the politics. I just took Slate's Blue State/Red State quiz (you probably saw it long ago... http://fray.slate.msn.com/id/2103764/) and scored almost PRECISELY in the middle (because I know too much of the Red State culture, I have shot a gun, I'm not afraid of learning about many things, etc. I continue to worry that a lot of the polarization is really about fundamental identity of individuals, which is why people get so passionate about it.))

((I also wanted to come back to Goz's "What is the mental state of Red Sox nation question again.... I know you were asking this a few days ago.... but hey, I've been busy. The mood of Red Sox nation is elated and exhausted. One of my colleagues who lives just off Kenmore Square couldn't get to bed until 4AM last night. ((LATE NOTE: the woman who was hurt by the beanbag pepper spray projectile unfortunately died of the injury, we all pray for her and her family in this difficult time.)) I myself was up past two, part of that was because of a half hour call from Red Sox fan Don Williams in California after the game, and also that we hadn't started eating dinner until the game was over (after all, we wouldn't want to waste the food if we were just going to slit our throats after a heartbreaking loss - by this one should gather that I have finally reenergized Charlotte, a native Red Sox fan. I've always been a Yankees hater since I was a small child, but I only became a positive Red Sox fan in 1981 or so. The San Francisco Giants remain my childhood fan team.))
((Traffic was HORRIBLE this morning very late, I was coming in around 10AM and there still were long backups. In school earlier this week in RHODE ISLAND (where there are LOTS of Yankee fans) I heard that just about everyone in many of the schools had pledged their allegiance with an appropriate Yankee or Red Sox wearable item. I'm not sure if the Yankees people were still wearing those today or not. The really hot and popular Red Sox items include wearing socks with pomegranate stains to simulate Curt's blood or slightly more commercially generated t-shirts of #38 Bloody Brilliant which have an image of a blood stained sock, RemDawg (broadcaster and former second baseman Jerry Remy) signed scorecards of key games that generate a donation to the Jimmy Fund and hats, and the Carl Stevens audio reading of the poem "The Idiot Red Sox Will Rise!!!". This doesn't come close to the fanaticism over the Dropkick Murphys resurrecting the 1903 Broadway hit and Red Sox fight song "Tessie" and updating as the new official fight song. I must be embarrassed to say that Don Williams had to tell me about this particular element of the Red Sox nation social fabric. I'm a Joe and Jerry radio guy and they are a bit less non-traditional, though at the end of the game last night Joe Castiglione declared that this was the greatest series in sports history, and he doesn't always... well not often, go that overboard in hyperbole. But Peter Gammons said something similar. How's that for the mood of Red Sox nation.))
((As soon as I find out who wins tonight, I'm going to close off TAP and get it out, especially on the web and via E-Mail so people can see it before the World Series starts. I do think this whole discussion (as I've been putting it together) has been a fun E-Mail diary of the last couple of weeks....))

Dave Partridge (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:26:46 -0700 (PDT))

Tessie has been big all over. I've seen a pile of news items on it, and when I was in Daddy's Junky Music the other day it was playing on a loop, must have heard it a dozen times or more. Catchy tune to start with and really works as a fight song.

What happens in Boston if the Sox win the WS? I'll bet that's tops on the Mayor's mind right now.

((WHAT FOLLOWS WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THE YOUNG WOMAN DIED, I'm not sure what will happen now.... Many people have been speculating about the victory parade/party. The operating assumptions have been that if it occurs, given the size of the Patriots' parades and the assumption this would be much larger, that there might be 2 million people attending, which I think would make it the largest parade ever held in the US. I know there were 3 million in Rome at that anti-war protest last year. The Mayor of Boston is still laughing over how good his "cookie tastes" since he predicted at the beginning of this series that the Yankees' cookie was crumbling. He got there, but not the way he thought it would go, I'm sure. I'm sure he's also worrying about this though. There already is one police brutality charge being filed over last night's firing of rubber bullets at partying fans..... this last part being the incident I'm referring to...))

Warren Goesle (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:57:33 -0500)

Jim-Bob,

Very time constrained today, but let me get out what I can...

First, congrats to the Red Sox on several historic events, most notably (lest we forget), their first WS appearance since 1986 (side note: my cubie noted before game 6 that the last time the Red Sox depended on a player in high tops, his name was, "Bill Buckner"...thought it best not to forward that one on then).

Second, let's remember that there's another good series going on, with Game 7 tonight.

Third, the way I work it out, if Houston wins and the WS goes to 7, then Rick's formula of Clemens pitching game 7 in Fenway works out.

Fourth, I think it was Dave who suggested yesterday that the playoffs have been much better lately (or maybe just this year) then before. This makes sense from a financial standpoint, as the better players are concentrated on fewer teams, who tend to make the playoffs. There are many more teams in the mold of, say, the mid-70s Reds or late-80s As. I would also argue that it makes sense because my feeling is that players today are a lot better than they used to be, not even including steroids.

Fifth, I would note that right now the score is still 26-0 since 1918, and the only thing that would change that and signal a curse removal is a WS victory. If all you're shooting for is to beat the Yankees then you've beaten the best, but haven't set your goals high enough.

Sixth, I would ask that if the Red Sox manage to win the WS that they wait until Game 7, which would be 31 October, since my son's 2nd birthday is the day before, and I'd like to see that before the rapture.

Rick Desper (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT))

www.baseball-reference.com is a neat website to play with while one is sitting around, waiting to see WHO WILL PLAY THE RED SOX IN THE WORLD SERIES. (Excuse me, I sometimes feel compelled to use CAPS.)

I took a look at the 1986 Sox to see if anybody other than Clemens was still around. Do you remember how Tom Seaver was on that team? Though he was already 42 at the time and didn't make the postseason roster, he was reportedly a big influence on young Clemens. Comparing the '86 Sox with the '04 Sox:

1B Buckner/Stapleton vs. Millar/Mientkiewicz. Keep in mind that overall hitting numbers were lower in the 80s than these days. Buckner was towards the tail end of a great career. Millar has more pop in his bat, but Buckner did have 102 RBIs in 1986. Advantage: push.

2B Marty Barrett vs. Bellhorn/Reese. Barrett had a tremendous postseason in '86, but overall he was a light-hitting 2nd baseman. Bellhorn brings a bit more power and draws more walks, but set a franchise record for Ks. Reese is lights out defensively. Slight advantage: 2004.

SS Spike Owen vs. Orlando Cabrera. Both midseason pick-ups. Owen did not do much for the Sox, while Cabrera has really given the defense a boost, as well as providing reasonable hitting. Clear advantage: 2004.

3B Wade Boggs vs. Bill Mueller. While Mueller won last year's batting title, Boggs made a habit of picking up batting titles, and hit for reasonable power. In 1986, Boggs hit .357. Clear advantage: 1986.

C Rich Gedman vs. Jason Varitek. Gedman was a solid but unspectacular catcher. Varitek has a bit more pop in his bat, and also provides great leadership. Advantage: 2004

LF Jim Rice vs. Manny Ramirez. This is where we have to do the most adjusting for eras. If you only look at numbers, you will underestimate Rice. Having said that, 1986 was towards the tail end of Rice's career, and he was starting to drop off a bit. I would say Rice in his prime would be comparable to Manny in his prime, but Manny is still in his prime, and Rice was not in 1986. Slight advantage: 1986.

CF Tony Armas vs. Johnny Damon. Armas was a serious slugging outfielder up through 1984. Unfortunately, by 1986, he was well into his decline. Damon is much more of a speedster, and definitely a better fielder and runner and has reasonable power. Clear advantage: 2004.

RF Dwight Evans vs. Trot Nixon. Evans is the best defensive RF in Sox history. Nixon is a decent fielder with a slight advantage in hitting. Advantage: push.

DH Don Baylor vs. David Ortiz. With all due respect to Baylor, this is a clear advantage for Ortiz. Baylor, like Rice and Armas, was a bit past his prime in 1986, while Ortiz is a monster in his prime. Clear advantage: 2004.

Starting Pitching Clemens, Boyd, Hurst, and Nipper vs. Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, and Wakefield. Clemens had his breakout year in 1986, going 24-4 and setting the record with 20 Ks in one game. Boyd was good, but erratic, Hurst was excellent in the postseason, and Nipper was a placeholder. In contrast, Schilling is a power pitcher still in his prime it seems, though he's injured, Pedro is slightly on his decline, though his peak was so high he still is very good, Lowe is erratic like Boyd was, and Wakefield is as good as his knuckler. Slight edge to 2004, would be greater if Schilling were not hurt.

Bullpen Bob Stanley, Calvin Schiraldi, & co. vs. Timlin, Foulke & co. In 1986, the obvious weakness of the Sox was the bullpen. The current bullpen is among the best in the game. Huge advantage: 2004.

What's the point of this exercise? To show that this year's team really has what it needs, and is clearly stronger than the 1986 team. (Actually, the 1986 team was not as good as the 1975-1979 Sox, but the Yankees were also in decline in the mid-80s, so it was easier to make the Series.)

Rick Desper (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT))

((On Goz's comment on Bill Buckner in hightops....)) Please note that Schilling opted not to wear the high top, perhaps the game winning move of the series!

Warren Goesle (Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:41:07 -0500)

Gotta get my eyes checked...although my wife likes them blue. Of course, I didn't get to watch much of the game either.

Dave Partridge (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0700 (PDT))

Can any of the Red Sox pitchers hit for those three games in StL? I don't think we want Schilling trying to run bases. And what do you do about Ortiz? I don't think you want him out of the lineup, so I guess you have to have him play first base. Seems a bit of an advantage for the NL in general.

Rick Desper (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:06:44 -0700 (PDT))

Wakefield and Martinez both pitched in the NL at the beginning of their careers. And no, the Sox have Schilling scheduled to pitch games 2 and 6 at Fenway, precisely for that reason. Ortiz will play first, and he'll have to suffer his defensive shortcomings in exchange for his bat.

The biggest advantage for the Cardinals in St. Louis will be 50,000 screaming Cardinal fans. Ortiz has played enough first base that we can hope he won't be a liability. First base is the easiest place to hide a weak glove - I'm more worried about Manny quite frankly.

I couldn't decide whether I wanted the Sox to face Houston or St. Louis - both have great hitting, St. Louis has better defense, while the Astros would appear to have better pitching. (I'm very glad we don't have to face Brad Lidge!) Then I saw a clip featuring that annoying hill in center field in Houston and that decided it. I don't want to see Johnny Damon running up a hill that's part of the playing field! Besides, a Houston/Boston series would have had a lot of political overtones that we can thankfully avoid. And with the Cardinals involved, we can watch old tapes of the '46 and '67 series. They can trot out Bob Gibson, Carl Yastremszki, Stan Musial and Johnny Pesky. Should be fun!

p.s. I heard a sportscaster last night say it was too bad Musial and Ted Williams couldn't be around for this series. I know Musial has always flown under the radar compared to his contemporaries (esp. Williams and DiMaggio), but I'm pretty sure he's still alive, right? ((I'm 99% sure he is, I know he was alive when Williams died to comment on that.))

Dave Partridge (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT))

Personally, I'd rather go against the better defense than the better pitching. The Sox haven't really shined in extra bases or steals, but they have in power hitting, so a walk or two and one out of the park looks good and it doesn't matter how good the defense is in that case. Small margin either way though, it's going to be a good series.

((Wakefield actually is a VERY good hitter, Pedro is not.))

Rick Desper (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:07:02 -0700 (PDT))

I'm thinking Pedro should have at most two at-bats in St. Louis. We'll be looking at "Extra Rest Pedro", so there's a good chance he'll be throwing BBs on Tuesday. But it's not like he'll pitch the whole game. And with the Sox bench and bullpen, pinchhitters should be no problem.

((The Red Sox are planning to dump a pitcher from the WS roster and bring back one more hitter too, I'm crossing my fingers for Ellis Burks..... he was GREAT at the end of the season pinchhitting and it would be neat.))

Rick Desper (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:27:13 -0700 (PDT))

I'm too worried about Schilling's ankle to want to dump a pitcher. Maybe if they brought in McCarty (Dave, not Walter) who can pitch if innings are needed? Though it would be nice to get Burks' bat.

What do you think about the Mirabelli situation? I think he should start with Wakefield, like he did all season. Varitek was a disaster in game 6! And Mirabelli isn't a huge offensive liability. And having the right catcher can really make a difference as to how well a pitcher throws.

((You shouda been at the press conference..... ;-) They are pretty sure that Arroyo can be the rubber arm they need (and emergency starter) so that is not necessary. I'm arguing for Burks, they said they probably would do this, but no announcement of whom yet. The betting is that they've seen enough of Ramiro Mendoza and that he is sure to be off the World Series roster. And that too has been announced, Mirabelli WILL catch Wakefield. You have it just right.))

Dave Partridge (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:40:20 -0700 (PDT))

No way do we want Wakefield throwing to Varitek. Start Mirabelli and when Wakefield comes out you can consider putting Varitek in then if Mirabelli isn't hitting.

Rick Desper (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:48:35 -0700 (PDT))

Oh, I forgot about Mendoza. Yes, by all means jettison him. I was thinking they'd have to get rid of Leskanic. I also agree with their attitude about Arroyo. Arroyo has very good stuff, but his problem is that he's prone to gopher balls. VERY BAD problem against the Cardinals lineup. Good on Mirabelli.

Though Francona has made a couple odd moves (most notably using Pedro in game 7), for the most part I've liked how he's handled the team.

Dave Partridge (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT))

That one had me very worried until Pedro got it together and pulled a couple of fastballs out of his back pocket. Do you think Pedro asked to be played? I can't see any other reason to do that.

Rick Desper (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT))

I think the original plan was Lowe for 3 innings and Pedro for 3 in long relief. But Lowe was pitching so well, and his pitch count was so low, that Francona decided to stick with him. Apparently Lowe's pitch count was only 69 when he was pulled - I would have kept him in. Given the 7 run lead at the time, I didn't see the need for a pitching change. I don't think Pedro asked specifically to be used during the game, but Francona said after the game that, once Pedro had started warming up, he was definitely coming in.

I think Pedro may have been affected by the extra-long 7th inning stretch typical of Yankee Stadium in the playoffs. His pitches to the first few batters were weak, but he gassed up for the last two batters.

Dave Partridge (Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:54:32 -0700 (PDT))

Just seemed at that point with the pitch count low and his pitches still going great, why not have Lowe play it out and let Pedro rest? Oh well, I think our managers are required to pull one bonehead move every series or they don't meet their quota. At least this one didn't cost anything.

((Rick is correct on the original plan. But Lowe had only had I think two days rest from pitching another 70 pitches, or something like that, so he simply wasn't going to be kept in longer. And Pedro was not used to getting ready, sitting down, and getting ready again, he was on his throwing day, and they intended to put him out there and to the work, once he was warm. Pedro himself said that he wasn't warm at first, I think. At that point, they just wanted to get nine more outs, and Pedro was assigned three of them. Rick is right about the last part too, he was coming in once he warmed.))
((I hope you enjoyed all that, I have no idea how many pages it is going to be, but I only have one subszine from Harold Reynolds, I think, so let's just go for it.... Red Sox to win the World Series....))

Al Tabor (Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:41:03 -0700)

Hi Jim Bob,

I've been meaning to write for oh, say, a decade here. I even have a file that I lob TAP comments into on the intention of writing them up into a letter when I have time to actually do it. Of course, spare time never arrives. I'm in the Portland, OR, airport on a Friday afternoon after having a meeting end early. I was having an enjoyable time reading TAP when it suddenly occurred to me I could finish up the issue, actually skip all that work stuff that should be ready sometime Monday, and write you instead. ((That is wonderful, it is really, really great to hear from you!!!))

I'm in Portland coz I'm one of the folks riding point on a big frequently exhausting integration project. We sold the company a bunch of us founded, Mountain Hardwear, to Columbia Sportswear and we're now trying to hook up computer systems, design calendars, and sourcing procedures so that we can gain the benefits of both sides' expertise. After 6-8 months of trying to stay out of it, I was forced to conclude it was time to dust off the old Repo Man code of ethics and go for the point of maximum intensity before we got caught like a fly in amber and ended up unable to do anything at all. We're a 50M company with a focus on top-end highly technical outdoor equipment. CSC is 20 times our size and has sub-sub departments with more people than our entire company. Needless to say there's a pretty significant mismatch in a lot of the operating systems. Part of my job results from me being the only systems guy in a collection of design and sourcing types. They all need to maintain good working relationships to allow day by day functioning. I'm the guy that has to point out somebody farted or that solutions aren't being considered for political reasons or whatever and rattle some cages then everyone else can work at repairs and a system that might actually now work. I'm actually having fun but this is not something I would want to do on a long term basis. ((I can understand that, parts of my job operate similarly to that. I've gotten so good at taking extreme criticism, even if completely unfair, and then apologizing to get things back on track behind the scenes, that people looking at the public picture get scared for me. When people tell me things like this I look at them quizzically and wonder, well why SHOULD I embarrass them back in public, it really isn't any big deal, and as you say, you just want everyone else not to worry and get back to the task at hand.))

I don't, of course, actually have my file of comments with me now that I'm actually writing. ((Yeah, I make all these wildass comments expecting to have someone haul me up on charges and then they let these things go, glad to hear you jumping back in.)) The last comment I remember adding to it involved jazz and cymbals. I'm inclined to the free jazz types and you're never gonna hear a Cecil Taylor project pushing the cymbals along click click click, but I'm pretty sure that what's happening in more `traditional' jazz. The time keeping function is being delegated to the cymbal. That frees up all the other limbs and drums for other more interesting stuff. As a result the cymbal pips along somewhat monotonously if you're focused on it but ideally pretty much subliminally. Something has to do set tempo but the rhythm sections want to have fun like everyone else and keeping time is not all that challenging. At least that's my understanding. ((I think that's about right.))

Somewhere I've even got a Desert Island list. One thing I noticed compiling it (it actually physically exists as a CD case under my car seat) is that what's in it is the result of a cross between the emotional intensity of my life at particular time periods and the quality of the music. Some stuff is there because it always sounds good. Some of it was the sound track to intense experience. As a result there's a lot from my late teens and twenty's but also music from my son's birth and early years and from during my mother's battle with cancer, `recovery', and then death all of which was happening simultaneously. ((Absolutely, but that's important, this is why I always stress that **** on any recording don't really make any sense. Except for the fact that you or I could probably star most music we have on a relative basis as far as what it means to us, but those relative ratings would mean almost nothing to anyone else.))

What's up with me on the game front? No time for the big gnarly PDM games I used to enjoy or anything with much diplomacy. Some time back I got into group Doom and Starcraft sessions at work using the network to play with 4-7 people. Lately I've become a board game evangelist for the type of games called German or Family Strategy Games...the type of games covered on boardgamegeek.com., for example. ((Yeah, I wish I had more people around to play those games with. I particularly love Puerto Rico, but never get to play it enough.)) We were getting to the point where Wendy (spouse), Griffin (son), and I might each be on a different computer playing some computer game. We all decided that was idiotic. I'd been reading about these games